സീറോ മലബാര്‍ വോയ്സ്: Anonymous said...

Sunday, September 19, 2010

Anonymous said...

dear web admin, you say that nobody is willing to give you the official reason on why st. thomas cross must be there in our alter, rather than the crucifix.But our bishops had issued many pastoral letters in these matters and it still continues. Recently Mar Joseph Perumthottam, archbishop of changanacherry issued one among them. Its available in the 'Madhyasthan' (Official magazine of the archdiocese) section of archdiocese's site ( www.archdiocesechanganacherry.org ) as a pdf file... Since the images cannot be posted in comments, i it in another blog and gave the link... I commented twice about this, but you didn't allow to post it and you deleted it.. Its shame on you to play this kind of dirty politrics.. You please post the pastoral letter or you give the link to my page... Please dont delete this...

September 17, 2010 11:10 PM

Replay to the above commentator:

Your argument for Mar Thoma Cross is, to say the least, silly. Mar Joseph Perumthottam is not the definite authority to issue an edict on such a controversial matter as the Mar Thoma Cross.

On this subject, the decision of the Syro-Malabar Synod has made its position very clear. In essence it states: "the synod also discussed the controversy over the Persian Cross found at the tomb of St Thomas at Mylapore and the manner in which it is being introduced in churches. In this connection, the Apostolic Administrator asked all members of the Synod not to impose this particular cross either overtly or covertly and observed that any such attepot will make the situation worse. The Synod decided to abstain from making any theological or historical statement concerning the cross in question..."

It is very presumptuous to think Mar Perumthottam is above the synod. If anything he is disregarding the decision of the Synod, and he and such other bishops are making their own rules. It is preciously these kinds of rogue prelates who have created the present crisis in our church.

And the commentator please remember Mar Perumthottam is one of only 40 or so Syro Malabar Bishops. His personal opinion means nothing to the Syro Malabar faithful at large. What you should do in the meantime, is pray to the Holy Spirit, that He may grant this bishop the wisdom to lead his flock in the right path.

25 comments:

Anonymous said...: This man has no grace of a bishop. He looks like a drunkard.; September 19, 2010 at 9:22 AM
Anonymous said...: Mar Joseph Perumthottam is another angaadi willing to do anything for powethil,

Perumthottam also got Bishop-hood because of Powethil, the suitable candidate of Arch Dioceses Bishop was supposed to be Alnechery who is a bishop in one of dioceses not Arch Diocese Changanacherry.

But Alencheri had criticized and not agreed with Powethil on many issues and he did not like it, so that is why he did not get the Changanacherry Bishop post.; September 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM
Anonymous said...: Who is going to listen to this man?

Who has given him the authority to send this message?

Powethil?

After all Powan made him the Bishop.

He is returning his love this way.Cheap Bishop?; September 19, 2010 at 10:00 AM
Anonymous said...: Arch Bishop Kaduppan?

Politicians gracefully leave the post when they are leveled allegations against them on moral and ethical ground.

We know you have no such standard?That is why you are still clinging on this post.You have no shame at all?You remain their at our expense.Good Luck to you!; September 19, 2010 at 10:04 AM
Anonymous said...: We don't need to read this bishop's anything.We have a letter from synod which he is also part of.That is enough for us.; September 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear priest/bishop/whatever,

Since you sound so high up and knowledgeable about everything, answer this one question:

In the old days there used to be a sacrifical lamb. Those who assembled to pray and participate in the sacrifice completed their participation by eating the sacrificial meal.

In the last supper Jesus used bread and wine. He said he is the sacrificial lamb, and his life will be given in place of a lamb. His desciples ate the bread and completed the symbolic sacrifice. When we do that in his memory, we should be thinking of the real sacrifice that took place shortly after the last supper of Jesus. That is what He wants us to do in his memory - remember him, and he sacrificing himself for us.

So, now, where should the crucifix be placed, since it reminds us of the sacrifice he made for us, and what values does marthoma cross has in any catholic church?; September 19, 2010 at 11:03 AM
Anonymous said...: It is time for kaduppan to bid good bye from America.He won't leave because he has no shame.We don't expect that you leave.But you cannot neglect the majority opinion.We will never ever accept you as our Bishop even if you unfortunately become one.

You are against the believers.You may become Bishop one day but still you remember the most believers are against you.Don't forget this.; September 19, 2010 at 11:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Kaduppan you can never bring back our support.Your attempt to do so will back fire.There will be no more compromise with you.No more.You are already gone from our mind.

It is we who supported you all these years.

Once we know who you really are, that support base is gone.Good Bye.; September 19, 2010 at 11:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Bishops in Kerala and elsewhere,

You cannot neglect our voice.Our message is very strong.We need educated capable priests here.Specialists from Rome to handle affairs here.We do not need the current Chancellor here anymore.

We will not accept Kaduppil as our bishop in future.; September 19, 2010 at 11:12 AM
Anonymous said...: I can see why the admin rejected your explanation. You don't even know what you are talking about. Here is what I mean.

You said, "dear web admin, you say that nobody is willing to give you the official reason on why st. thomas cross must be there in our alter, rather than the crucifix."

1. You are not higher than the synod. So you cannot give an official explanation when Synod is above you, and gave a definite answer and made a decision on this matter.

2. We are talking about installing crucifix on the "altar" not "alter".

3. Pope said all caholic churches should have crucifix on the altar. You are not above the pope. So shut up.; September 19, 2010 at 11:14 AM
Anonymous said...: Our fight against the evil will continue.It will be a relentless and long lasting.You all will see this fight for a long long time.We will not stop until we are successful.

Do not ever underestimate us,do not count on us as Chicago people did.
Our resolve is very strong.

We will not subside as you think.You have given us lot of energy to fight.Our own church leaders prompted us.There will be no respite for you.No!Never1; September 19, 2010 at 11:16 AM
Anonymous said...: Conman Kaduppan!Good Luck to you for your evil designs and satan's work.; September 19, 2010 at 11:18 AM
Anonymous said...: FROM GERMANY

I RECENTLY CAME TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR RELENTLESS FIGHT GOING ON THERE ESPECIALLY FIGHT AGAINST THE CORRUPT LEADERS.

MAY THE GOOD LORD GIVE YOU ENOUGH STRENGTH AND COURAGE TO VIGOROUSLY FIGHT FOR YOUR CAUSE.

I WILL CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME.MY PRAYERS WILL BE ALWAYS WITH YOU.BEST WISHES.; September 19, 2010 at 11:22 AM
Anonymous said...: THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING YOU KADUPPAN YOUR DIRTY BEHAVIOR.SHAME ON YOU!SHAME.; September 19, 2010 at 11:24 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Blog admin:

"Puraykku thee pidikkumbol vaazha kula vettunnathu"
Dont' you see that in Chicago Father thundan is vaazhakkula vetting, when Koppal pura is buring? Fr.thundan made $250,000 with Chitra gaanamela; for what??? for a grotto. Dont you think this is another money svinding sacm? Why do you need $250,000 fro a grotto? its like the 10million dollar cathidral - 5million for the cathidral and 5million for the kunandans. I bet more than half this $250,000 will disapper inot the sky.
How stupid are we mallus!!!! Shame, shame mallus. OK, we got cheted once - that was Father thundans to blame. But second time if we are cheted, we should be blamed. Remember: "once fooled shame on him; twice fooled shame on US"
I think the more we go to zeromalabar church, the more we are becoming stupid.; September 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM
CHURCH said...: Leading Churhc to division and Disharmony:

Though the difference between schism and heresy is big.. These bishops: Powathil and Perumthottam are leading the people astry by not adhering to the teaching of the synod.

While the meaning of schism: "A schismatic is a person who creates schism in an organization or who is a member of a splinter group. Schismatic as an adjective means belonging to a schism or schisms, or to those ideas, policies, etc. that are thought to lead towards schism"

Now we are not talking about the theology at all, just a symbol,(clavar cross) which is not a traditon since not everyone follows it. What is tradition then? It is large group of people in the church accepts like the synod something from the past, even they(synod) do not accept or admint the cross, as it is still a matter of study and contravesy.

So people; do not be a schismatic as it is a sin and can occure being divided and thrown away from church (Maharon) or excummiunication from the church. Catholic church even excommunicated a Cardnal of Paris,(Following Marcel Lefebvre's schism in June 1988) france recently as 1988 for schism. you can read it in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Tissier_de_Mallerais

So please be careful when following the teaching of these bishops Powathil or Perumthottam, who are not in union with Synod or other bishops.; September 19, 2010 at 1:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Now Bishop and parties cannot blame Coppell people for everything.

This is my personal opinion.

Look at the today's poll.Quite a number of people voted today while all coppell believers fighting for our crucifix are attending the meeting..

Now it is clear that other people are also interested and involved in our fight.How can you say that this is all creation of Coppell People.Tell us Kaduppa?Tell.; September 19, 2010 at 1:45 PM
Anonymous said...: aillastMy Dear Stupid Anonymous..
Mar Perumthottam is now a Bishop because Powathil made him so. It is an agreement between them not with God, and he is sering faithfully to his master Powathil, can you expect otherwise, stupid?; September 19, 2010 at 5:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Hello there Anonymous priest,

I am still waiting for your answer to my question. It is in comment #6.; September 19, 2010 at 8:22 PM
Anonymous said...: this man has a k.d. look. not a holy look. he looks evil.; September 21, 2010 at 10:16 PM
Anonymous said...: I like to comment on the circular written by Mar Joseph Perumthottam

Mar Joseph: Mat 24.30 where the scripture talks about the sign of the son of man. Sleeva (Persian Cross) is the sign of Son of Man

Fact: In the early days there were some theologians (church fathers) who thought and taught that the cross will be the son of man. This list includes Chrysostom. Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem and Ephrem. While some of the church fathers taught this, no one else really picked up this one. The general consensus is that, The sign of the son of Man is The son of man himself (this goes to the grammatical usage of Greek; In a matter of speaking in the third person). Cross being the sign of the son of man in the second coming is a very discrete thought.

Mar Joseph Ref to Luke 24:26 Jesus talking the disciples going to Emmaus. Telling them that Messiah was to suffer, die and enter into resurrection

Fact: Look at the context where the disciples had been talking to Jesus. Their leader / rabbi whom they thought was the messiah who would redeem Israel (not a spiritual redemption but a physical redemption from the Romans. Since Jewish Messiah is the son of David, the idea of a Messiah in Jew's mind is someone who will free them from Romans slavery. To understand the context better, think about freedom struggle of India, and how would an Indian will feel if Gandhi got killed by the British. This is a lame example as Indians did not think of Gandhi as a religious figure. But you can understand the mind set. ) The disciples was very sad to see that their leader got crucified by the Romans and they really did not believed that Jesus resurrected or he could rise from the dead for that matter. So Jesus admonish them for their lack of faith and explains to them the truth about him. In our case, we know that Jesus resurrected and he will come again.

To be realistic, on a day to day basis we are all facing more and more suffering (as Jesus said, if you want to be my disciple, pick up your cross and follow me) than power and glory. In that context, the suffering Messiah on the crucifix resonates with us than an empty cross sitting on a lotus and a descending dove.

This response is getting longer than I want it to be, and hence I am stopping here. If anyone is curious to get a response on any specific points in the circular, please post a comment and I will respond

In summary by singling out certain biblical quotes and mixing it with isolated traditions to build a set of rudimentary theological arguments to promote the Persian cross is all the circular about; September 23, 2010 at 11:00 PM
Anonymous said...: SYROMALABAR MUNGLISH PRIESTS HOW LONG ARE YOU PLANNING TO DIVIDE & DESTROY THE MALAYALAM COMMUNITY IN THE NAME OF MARTHOMA KURISSU. HANG IT IN YOUR BEDROOMS -- NOT IN OUR +CHURCHES.; September 27, 2010 at 10:16 AM
Tom Varkey said...: Tom Varkey Writes:
The Following is a Biblical response to Mar Perumthottam's opinionated argument.

Why the Mar Thoma Cross Is So Dangerous -- Tom Varkey
The other day I was reading the Bible (the Book of Judges, Ch. 17 and 18). Reflecting on what I read, I suddenly realized how dangerous what Bishops Powathil and Angadiath are doing in the Syro-Malabar Church is going to be. It scared me to death to think of the great danger we are exposed to and so I thought I will share my nightmares with you.
In Judg 17:1-3 a man named Micah steals money from his mother to make a carved image and a cast idol which he sets up in his house in Ephraim. In Judg. 17:9-10 a Levite (a priest belonging to the priestly tribe of Israel) from Bethlehem sets out in search of a place to live and comes to the house of Micah. Micah offers him 10 shekels of silver a year besides clothes and food as a reward for becoming his priest and helping him to worship the idol and carved image which he had made.
Then in Judg. 18:1, the Danites (Israelites belonging to the tribe of Dan) go in search of a place to settle down and they come to the house of Micah. They recognized the voice of the Levite and asked him how he got there. He told them how Micah had hired him as a priest (Judg. 18:4). Then the Danites asked the Levite to come with them to be their priest which would be more rewarding for him. The Levite accepted the offer. With his help, the Danites took the carved image and other household gods from the house of Micah. Then they settled down in a nearby city in Ephraim. They all worshiped the carved image and the other idols that Micah had made until they were captured and taken into captivity.
Let us compare the story to what has happened in the Syro-Malabar Church today. Just as Micah built the carved image with the money he stole from his own mother, Bishop Powathil came up with the idea of the Mar Thoma Cross and decided to promote it using the hard-earned money from the poor Syro-Malabar Catholics in Kerala. Then he recruited Rev. Fr. Jacob Angadiath to be his representative to promote the worship of the Mar Thoma Cross in the U.S. He bribed Bishop Angadiath by offering him the position of the Bishop just as Micah offered the Levite 10 shekels of silver a year besides food and clothes. Bishop Angadiath in turn rewarded every priest who promoted the Mar Thoma Cross and punished every priest who did not cooperate with him. Thus the carefully crafted evil plan of Bishop Powathil and Bishop Angadiath went on with amazing success.; November 1, 2010 at 8:59 PM
Tom Varkey said...: This is the second part of Tom Varkey
s Biblical Response to Mar Joseph Perumthottam's arguments.

Things were going fine until Mar Jacob Angadiath committed the fatal error of deporting Rev. Fr. Sajy from Coppell for not cooperating with his dirty tricks to promote his idol, the Mar Thoma Cross. This opened the eyes of not only Syro-Malabr Catholics in Coppell but throughout the world in a big way. In the above story from the Book of Judges, we see how a single man Micah who created his own idol and carved images for his personal worship was able to bring down a whole tribe of Israel. In the same way, if we do not put a stop to the Mar Thoma Cross Mania right now, it will not only bring down the whole Syro-Malabar Church, but it will pose a serious threat to the whole Catholic Church. So, friends, unite!. See what is at stake and fight for your faith. What is at stake is much more than a couple of bishops going after the Mar Thoma Cross. It is Satan trying to bring down the whole Catholic Church just as Micah, a single individual brought down one of the strongest tribes of Israel. This is what an idol like the Mar Thoma Cross can do.; November 1, 2010 at 9:01 PM
Anonymous said...: In our opinion, goining to Syro Malabar Churches in Changanasserry Ach Diocese (Kaldaya Roopatha)is big blunder..... They don't have real catholic belief...... Majority of the priests in this diocese wants to marry.....!!! That is why Powathil is always in touch with "Kalla Raskal in Devalokam" (Orthodox Group).

Since Perunthottam is a "Vaal" of Powathil, He is blindly following Kaldayavalkaranam now. In changanasserry Arch Diocese, We are not interested to see the back of the priests during mass...... Curtain Play like in drama house.......... Then finally the Claver Kurisu or Tamara Kurisu (BJP Kurisu) means Bishop Joseph Powathil Kurisu....... We strongly believe that these are totally against catholic believes.....!!

As every one know, Our former Pontifical Delegate Late Arch Bishop Abraham Kattumana was totally against all these foolish activities framed by Powathil..... That is why Powathil and Changanasserry group considered him as their biggest enemey. We the catholic believers in changanasserry arch diocese stronly believe that the Heart attack of Bishop Kattumana in Roma was not true. The real culprit behind this drama was changanasserry group......That is why they bursted crackers and distributed sweets in Vadavathoor seminary after hearing the Sad demise of Bishop Kattumana in Rome.
If you analyse the incidents...Those who are against, Changanasserry group will loose their lifes earlier...... Examples are Very Rev. Bishop Abraham Kattumana...... Rev. FR. Joseph Karimpalil.........

Now we the catholic believers in changanasserry decided to move to latin side.......Where Real catholic beliefs are there..... We are crossing the borders and going to different latin churches to attend masses....

If powathil & Perunthottam are behaving like this..... Our Syro Malabar Rite will become Big "ZERO" in future.; January 17, 2011 at 4:28 AM

സീറോ മലബാര്‍ വോയ്സ്

Sunday, September 19, 2010

Anonymous said...

25 comments:

You are visitor number 3 Million and

Read Prof. Joseph Pulikkunnel in: